Borough Council - Public Hearing

Borough Council Public Hearing Minutes

September 28, 2009

President Edwin Peterson called the meeting to order at 4:00 PM with the following Councilors present: Ms. Holliday Giles, Mr. Theodore Streeter, Mr. John Butterfield, Mrs. Susan Naugle, Mr. Robert Krummerich, Mr. Michael Birkner, Ms. Alice Estrada, Mrs. Claire Lewis and Mayor William Troxell. Staff included Manager John Lawver, Borough Secretary Sara Stull and Planner Merry Bush.

President Peterson announced the purpose of the public hearing is to receive comments from the public regarding the proposed comprehensive amendments to the Gettysburg Sign Ordinance (Chapter 19).

Councilman Butterfield gave a brief overview of the proposed draft sign ordinance pointing out members of council and borough staff have been researching and gathering information for the past 16 months. Mr. Butterfields remarks are attached.

Representing the press were Scot Pitzer of the Gettysburg Times and Erin James of the Evening Sun.

Citizens in attendance: Bob McIlhenny, McIlhenny Banners; Trevor Cluck, Cluck's Design Studio; Len Dick, Len Dick Signs; Gene and Debra Golden, Gettysburg Signs Express; Jeffrey Gabel, Majestic Theater; Reverend John Spangler, Gettysburg Lutheran Theological Seminary; Paul Witt, Quality Inn; Jackie White, Dobbin House; Susan Trostle, T&S Menswear/Gettysburg Area Retail Merchants Association; Kathy Gilbert, Gettysburg Day Spa; Stephanie McIlwee, Elm Street Director; Peggy Gustafson, HARB member; Elwood Christ, HARB member; Chuck Teague, 125 East Middle Street and Judie Butterfield, 999 Sunset Avenue.

Public Comments:

Jeffrey Gabel, Majestic Theatre, thanked council for their thorough and thoughtful work on the draft sign ordinance. He noted he sent a letter to council addressing their issue that involves the Majestic Marquee. Mr. Gabel was pleased that Section 19-108.4 that prohibits internally illuminated signs did make an exception for marquees on theaters. However, Section 19-106.7.C states no sign shall project or extend over any pedestrian walkway for a distance of more than four (4) feet. Mr. Gabel pointed out the Majestic Theater's 1952 Marquee extends approximately eight (8) feet over the sidewalk, and technically would be in violation of the new ordinance. He asked that council consider this marquee that has been a landmark for over 50 years is "grand-fathered" into the new sign ordinance.

Bob McIlhenny, McIlhenny Banners, noted he sent his comments to council prior to the meeting for their review. He thanked council for undertaking the difficult and "thankless" job of revising the sign ordinance. Mr. McIlhenny addressed council and noted the goals of the new sign ordinance should be consistent with the goals expressed in the Borough's Comprehensive Plan, the Zoning Ordinance and Historic District Ordinance which stress that it is important to "safeguard Gettysburg's historic identity as represented in structures, streetscapes and sites of historical, architectural and archeological value." He noted as elected officials you are required to protect the health, safety and welfare of the Borough's citizens, which includes their "economic welfare". Mr. McIlhenny pointed out Section 19-110.9D that states that "street banners shall be permitted seasonally"- this is not consistent with the historic character of Gettysburg. Street banners are modern and not consistent with the goals stated in the Borough's ordinance and feels they should not be allowed especially in the Historic District. Mr. McIlhenny also expressed his concern with Section 19-112 the administration and enforcement. He feels this will be hard to enforce and that fairness will be crucial. He suggested adding to the enforcement section stating, "Only signs, banners and flags that meet the requirements of the ordinance may be per permitted".

Susan Trostle asked if banners would connect at the top and bottom. Bob answered yes. Ted Streeter asked if this includes the banners across a street. Bob said he was not referring to this type of banner.

Debra Golden, Gettysburg Signs Express, addressed council with her concerns regarding the draft ordinance. A. Nonconforming Signs-International Sign Association. Taking a sign (requiring that signs conform within 5 years) is considered a taking of property. A sign is considered a real estate improvement and the Borough would have to pay for the taking or be taken to court. B. Arbitrary reasons for allowing or disallowing pole mounted signs in Old Town-Section 19-108.3, pointing out Kuntzler Signs and LaBella Italia would have illegal signs. Merry Bush noted to consider footage available between sidewalk and building. Not all buildings in Old Town or Historic District are right at the sidewalk. C. Commercial displays inside windows, an example are Christmas lights in business windows and it's not a holiday would be illegal in the draft ordinance. This would affect many businesses. D. Regulating lettering on vehicles- Section 19-107.9, states you can't park a vehicle on the street if you have magnetic signs on them, would be illegal in the draft ordinance.

John Butterfield asked for a copy of Mrs. Golden's written statements for council to review. Mrs. Golden said no but she would speak at the meetings.

Susan Naugle asked why the LaBella Italia sign is illegal. Mrs. Golden responded it is in violation because it should be 8' off the ground but it's a monument sign.

Trevor Cluck, Cluck's Design Studio, expressed his concern is with the liability insurance stating $1 million is too high.

Reverend John Spangler, Lutheran Seminary, expressed their concern that the ordinance would not allow alternating messages on a LED sign - Section 19-107.3. The Seminary Chapel sign may need to have two messages at the same time and hope this restriction would not cause a problem.

Len Dick, Len Dick Signs, addressed council with his concerns noting he wasn't familiar with the Zoning Districts. The six-foot height limit in the Historic District will not work - Section 19-107.9, pointing out if a building sits low the sign may need to be higher. Mr. Dick asked if the property owner is responsible for the liability insurance. He also asked if the banner time limit be extended to 90 days instead of 30 days.

Paul Witt, Quality Inn, thanked Len Dick for providing the Welcome to Gettysburg Signs you see when entering Gettysburg. Mr. Witt addressed council with his concern about a 6-foot height limit on Steinwehr Avenue - Section 19-106.6B, pointing out the Steinwehr Plan calls for monument signs not pole signs.

Jackie White, Dobbin House also expressed her concern with the 6-foot height limit on Steinwehr Avenue - Section 19-106.6B. Ms. White pointed out the Dobbin House sign has an 8-foot clearance now and if changed to 6-foot restriction where would sign be placed, there is no regulation on distance of signs from the curb. Ms. White also asked for clarification on number of portable signs allowed and is it per parcel or per business - Section 19-110.6F; she would prefer it to be two.

Susan Trostle, T&S Menswear, expressed her concerns with the draft ordinance. A. Clarification on use of historic flags and also flag size as a 2x4 is not a standard size and would need to be custom made; B. 7-foot clearance to the ground for flags would require a ladder to hang and remove the flag each day; C. Is the Majestic Theater posters/event banners- has a 30-day limit; D. Is posting signs for charitable organizations in store windows allowed or not; E. Signs that is offensive such as the Civil War women calendar-Section 19-107.6; F. Selling tickets for off-premise activities; G. Display of merchandise on sidewalks to attract attention - Section 19-107.10.

Chuck Teague expressed his concern with too many signs the town becomes cluttered and it gets confusing, noting people get turned off with multiple signs. He has worked with preservation and pointed out Gettysburg is an extraordinary historical town to visit. Mr. Teague suggested not using utility poles for advertising and to avoid street banners in the Historical District.

Elwood Christ expressed his concern with larger billboards would make it look tacky; he feels they're inappropriate. The wattage on both internally and externally lit signs should be limited. Mr. Christ told council if they think they are right stick to it and not be intimidated by threats of lawsuits.

Gene Golden addressed council and pointed out he began this process in 2005 and is upset that he wasn't part of the process in revising this draft ordinance. He said signage is speech and not sure of the intent to restrict signage. Mr. Golden noted the state highway signs are illegal and that council recently approved the Tourist Oriented Directional Signs (TODS) signs. He asked if council knows what is in the Hollowed Ground sign rules. Mr. Golden asked for fair and equal treatment in Gettysburg noting this is a living working town and it's not just for "history buffs". He said there's a need to have more incentives like Main Street's 50/50 program.

Susan Naugle asked Mr. Golden if he has any comments pertaining to the draft ordinance and what he feels is flawed. Mr. Golden responded everything is flawed.

Solicitor Eastman explained the legal reviews have not been completed and that this hearing is to hear public comment and finalize the draft for a future date. The sign ordinance will not be approved at this meeting. He noted citizens had good comments that will be addressed.

Kathy Gilbert expressed her disappointment with the Golden's and why they are so contentious; and doesn't know the purpose or why they are acting like this. Mrs. Gilbert noted she uses the Golden's as her sign maker for her business.

Peggy Gustafson thanked council for their time and the work they have put into this ordinance, pointing out it's a hard job. Mrs. Gustafson said HARB appreciates what council does for Gettysburg.

Solicitor Eastman asked if Dick Schmoyer, Adams County Planning Office sent in a response. Mr. Butterfield answered nothing has been received to date.

Moved Mr. Butterfield, seconded Ms. Giles to adjourn the meeting at 5:30 pm.

Respectfully submitted,

Sara L. Stull, Borough Secretary